Firmware 078

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prozorowicz
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:41 am

Re: Firmware 078

Postby prozorowicz » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:28 am

I didn't like the firmware update VERY much. Why? The first thing that stands out is the very, very slow pull to the target power. Even typing by hand the power, the adaptation has definitely improved (average powers, if they are to be 200W, will be more or less like that), but full adaptation to this takes a very long time. Minutes? Especially when changing terms of office.

Previously, in 074 (with me!), The set power was achieved in seconds: 2 - 3 seconds around and up to 10 in total tightening to the set one. It could be. And now?
Image
Blue color - Power2Max, fillet color - Direto XR.
Yes, I know - thin, but I can't press harder because the spine has not fully healed and when pressed, the rotation can be clearly felt on the lumbar vertebrae. Well, let's look at what is. It was supposed to be 4x30s (200W / 100W). 1s, 10s, 5s, 1s averaging is enabled in sequence. And? Crap. The lower threshold of 100W is practically insufficient, and quite a lot. The treble also, at least for those 30 seconds, actually 20 seconds of tightening in this case. Yes, it is smoother, but I find it very hard to accept.

Previously, power averaging had no effect on braking power. Ie. it did, but only to correct the power, because the tightening itself was just as fast in each averaging. Now it has an impact, and a lot of it. Let's compare 1s, 5s and 10s.
1s:
Image
5s:
Image
10s:
Image

The influence of averaging on the slow increase in braking power is clearly visible - especially in the last one, but it is also visible in the 5s of averaging. Too bad, but let's say that it might be the case if the higher averaging was omitted and only the lower one, e.g. 1 - 3s, was left.

But what does it look like in firmware 074 and 078?
074 (3s):
Image
and 078 (5s):
Image
Yes, in the first 3, in the second 5, but these are the ones I have to compare. And what? Smaller fluctuations, but the VERY slow adjustment to the set power will not be liked by everyone (if someone at all). I don't like it and I think I will ask Elite to provide me with the previous FW. As far as they can ... They should give the opportunity to choose FW for people who do not like what they introduced.

Drops are loss of ANT + connectivity of the recording device (or transmitter?)

On the positive side, as I mentioned, the adaptation to the given load takes a long time, but then the trainer holds the given braking power nicely. Actually, for my purposes it is quite useful when I use longer rides in the lower power zones, watching movies etc and prefer to do intervals in either resistance or incline mode anyway. But for the ERG supporters, it is not very comforting, although I guess they have eliminated the problem that was a pain in some people, i.e. firing the power at the beginning of the interval. But at too high cost - 20 seconds and more of tightening to the set power to "slight" exaggeration ...

As a reminder, what the braking power curve looked like in the FW 074 (this time the purple P2M, blue - Direto XR):
Image
Apart from the lag from the start of the LAP signal (approx. 3s), it is clearly visible that the resistance on the crank is changed normally, only the reported is smoothed. Let's look at a single interval (1):
Image
In the P2M measurement, you can clearly see that the resistance increases in 2 seconds. It should be remembered that P2M has averaging, so the target resistance can be obtained even faster. The Direto measurement report is stretched because it is averaged to 10s. hence the longer rise time (approx. 10 seconds) as well as the fall of the reported power.

With smoothing 10s, it resulted in a definitely stable hold of the power, without any significant delays in reaching it. Note the data of the P2M power meter, the averaging of the internal measurement of the Direto XR did not affect the speed of reaching the set braking power (despite Direto reporting the average power), currently using averaging causes crying due to the slow reaching of the target values. Anyway, it is definitely too slow without averaging.

Comparing the interval with the power compensation parameter "1" and the data recorded by P2M, it resulted in a definitely stable hold of the power, without any significant delays in reaching it.:
Image
And the power was as it should be: 200W / 100W. Now about 30W less at the target of 100W, and about 40W less at the beginning of each interval. So what if it reaches the target power at the end? 30s for braking power setting? It's a mockery!

You can see that the measurements with their mileage practically do not differ (I did not calibrate P2M, hence a slight downward difference, when I calibrate P2M, the measurements are very similar), and if we compare the last two graphs, you can see a slight difference in stabilization in favor of the first (second) plot, where the braking power is stabilized by a large power averaging, but this is not such a difference as can be seen from the waveform of the power data itself reported from the Direto XR meter.
And I want it back! The FW 078 is a breakdown of a quite well-functioning (for me!) Trainer.

How it works now is, to say the least, unsatisfactory. I VERY dislike it. And I don't think I'm the only one disappointed about it. At the expense of eliminating the initial leap of resistance experienced by some (not mine!), They gave everyone a VERY slow trainer, which is practically unsuitable for intervals in ERG mode. Maybe to maintain power over long intervals, minimum a few minutes, e.g. 5 minutes and longer. But shorter intervals of 30s or even 1-3 minutes? Forget it.

If someone has not updated their trainer, I advise you to think about whether it is worth doing it at all, because you may be unpleasantly surprised. Especially if he is satisfied with the previous action. However, in the event that he has problems with the old FW, he can possibly try a new FW.

ELITE request: give the option to choose FW!
ELITE suggestion: leave the resistance control as in 074, add the possibility of averaging the data separately for setting the Direto XR brake (but to make it work as in 074 - i.e. only to reduce power fluctuations) and separately for power reporting (I like 1s, but higher averaging in 074 good at ignoring power spikes, now it's a tragedy it's so slow).

User avatar
Elite Admin S
Posts: 2776
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 am

Re: Firmware 078

Postby Elite Admin S » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:35 am

Hi

This behavior is quite unusual, there's something wrong.
Please contact the customer care, the guys there will ask you some specific test and solve the problem
https://support.elite-it.com/en/ticket

Regards

ncoupal
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:09 pm

Re: Firmware 078

Postby ncoupal » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:21 pm

Need help!
Just bought Direto XR, download Upgrado, trying to do the recommended update on the software. First update working well but when it is updating Radio it goes to 30% and flashes 19% and stops. Is there something else I can do? I have a Samsung S20 Ultra.

steve.hammatt
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:14 am

Re: Firmware 078

Postby steve.hammatt » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:47 am

ncoupal wrote:Need help!
Just bought Direto XR, download Upgrado, trying to do the recommended update on the software. First update working well but when it is updating Radio it goes to 30% and flashes 19% and stops.


Raise a ticket with Elite support and they will help you.

Osso79
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:47 am

Re: Firmware 078

Postby Osso79 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:28 pm

ncoupal wrote:Need help!
Just bought Direto XR, download Upgrado, trying to do the recommended update on the software. First update working well but when it is updating Radio it goes to 30% and flashes 19% and stops. Is there something else I can do? I have a Samsung S20 Ultra.


try with Iphone or Ipad, I have solved it.

with Android it did not work

prozorowicz
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:41 am

Re: Firmware 078

Postby prozorowicz » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:37 pm

Elite Admin S wrote:Hi

This behavior is quite unusual, there's something wrong.
Please contact the customer care, the guys there will ask you some specific test and solve the problem
https://support.elite-it.com/en/ticket

Regards


I contacted but Sonia wanted standard diagnostic data which was fine. No wonder, because they were supposed to be like that. Later, she wanted me to test the power meter, although I have no objections to the Direto XR meter. It measures very well.
The Elite service did not respond to my objections about the very long time it takes to reach any power. Let me remind you that while in the FW 74 it was about 3 to 8 seconds, now in the FW78 it is from 20 to 30 seconds. If my core workouts were ERG workouts, I'd be very pissed. Now I am "only" upset that I have unnecessarily updated the trainer software, thus breaking the quite efficient mechanism of setting the desired resistance.

As I am slowly returning to fitness, I did a few stronger and longer tests. So instead of short 30s and 100W / 200W, 1 minute intervals of 300W, 500W, 300W, 200W. The results are ... weird. At least.

Image

The harder the better. First series 100W / 300W:

Image

may not be perfect, but not that bad. And so you can see the tendency to reach the required power for the first half a minute.

This is especially visible in the third interval:

Image

where tightening to approx. 300W took approx. 20s. By the way, you can see that the power stability is quite good, in the overall graph it looks a bit worse, although in fact it is quite good. Of course, if not for the slow tightening to the required power.

The first interval of the first series looks like this:

Image

Here, too, approx. 20 seconds to pull to 300W. And also the power holding stability is quite good.

The 100W / 500W series are interesting, also after a minute each:

Image

The first interval seems to be on a downward trend. But it's worth taking a closer look:

Image

The speed of achieving 500W from the ceiling of 100W is 3 seconds. Then a slight drag above 500W and 7 seconds of stabilization to the vicinity of 500W. This is what I would like to be in every interval. What I marked yellow is not a problem with the trainer, and my trainer quickly corrected it.

The second 500W (minute) interval seems to be exemplary:

Image

however, this equalization is rather a matter of scale. If we bring only the top:

Image

You can see the initial fluctuations and equalization after about 12s. So it's pretty good at high power. At least big for me.

Ok, but what about the lower powers? 300W is not so little and I gave it higher, say 200W?

Image

As for me, it is much worse. The lower the power, the worse the stabilization. In the first one, you can see tightening to 200 W for 30 seconds

Image

Approximately it looks decent, but pulling to 300W (after the initial jump) is from about 150W and takes about 30s. Way too long and too low. Poorly.

Actually, they are all similar. Third interval:

Image

It is definitely badly stabilized. What rights 200W achieved in approx. 3 seconds but ...

Image

later the braking power ranges from 135W to 227W. Poorly!

Let Elite service think what is wrong with lower power and why stabilization takes so long (in FW 74 it was OK!), If the higher power is reasonably good in ERG mode (although the tightening to the desired braking power is a bit too long anyway) ), the stabilization of lower powers is poor. In FW 74 it was much better in this respect - at least for me.

Krzysiek
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:33 pm

Re: Firmware 078

Postby Krzysiek » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:41 pm

Elite Admin S wrote:Hi Craig

Not in this moment, I'm sorry.

Regards

Hi Admin,

When Elite will be share changes log between revision of firmware? I think customers should know what is change in they device.

Br,
Krzysztof

BB883
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Firmware 078

Postby BB883 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:44 am

I also updated from 074 to 078 just to be up to date, hoping better behaviour in ERG mode (that was previously OK for my trainnings !)...
Unfortunately, even if I can't be sure the FW update is responsible of my issue (trainer don't target the right power : unerpowered sub 175W, over powered above), I highly suspect this FW to be the cause of this issue.

So Yes, a change log in mandatory to let us know if it could be usefull or not to update. I also would like to be able to downgrade to 074 to clarify my doubts.
I think this will be next step with elite support as JSON (PID update) proposal did not work for me.
So far, I don't understand the JSON update elite is dispatching "on demand". If there's a known issue on some HW revisions, please provide a 079 upgrade including specific PID setup depending on the HW / Serial of each unit.

For me each individual system is working :
-Power meter seems to be OK
-Brake is reacting as it should, it just don't reach the right power target.
-Cadence output is OK
-BT / ANT+ OK
That's why I highly suspect a software issue.

stefan_l_01
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:25 pm

Re: Firmware 078

Postby stefan_l_01 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:43 pm

Imo a json update is different to a firmware update. You upload it also a diffetent way.
Maybe firmware is true code and json just parameter.
I got a json update and it works better now.


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